How to Find a Postpartum Doula After Birth with Jodi Congdon: Tips For Your Postpartum Recovery | 72

Jodi: and 


Trish: as a mama of seven. 


I'm here to help you take the guesswork out of childbirth so you can make the choices that are right for you and your baby. Quick note, this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace your medical advice. Check out our full disclaimer at the bottom. 


Jodi: of the show notes. 


Jodi: and what you do. 


All right, perfect. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here. So my name is Jodi Congdon and I own hip to heart which is a boston area birth and postpartum doula agency And i'm also a postpartum doula and lactation educator trainer for kappa And one of the things that I specialize in addition to those things. 


So those are my you know, kind of two main things. And then I, I have some business courses for doulas. So kind of, I teach the care piece in my doula trainings, and then I kind of take it a step further and make sure they have, you know, all of the knowledge for building their business. 


Well, maybe they were, but more so on the West Coast, but definitely not on the East Coast. I don't believe. And we're always so behind it seems when it comes to OB or maternity care or all of that. So, I just want to dive in, but before we do, I want to give everyone a heads up that both Jodi and I have children at home today, Jodi is having a snow day, and, and I have recently started homeschooling again, so Grayson is not understanding what classifies as an emergency versus, I need it right now type of thing, so if we're interrupted or you hear children in the background, hashtag. 


Like how did your birth experiences play a part in your role of becoming 


Jodi: a doula? Yeah. So it played a huge part in it. So I was 25 when I got pregnant with my first. And went in and I felt, I was always like so maternal as a child. Like I always knew that I wanted to be a mom. Like that was my, you know, when I grow up, I'm going to be a mom and. 


Whatever else. So I just kind of went in with the attitude, like, what will happen will happen. Like, I feel so relaxed about it. Like, I'm not nervous and ended up having a 42 week induction. I had, like, the best pregnancy. I loved being pregnant. I enjoyed every second of it. But I didn't know what I didn't know. 


It was beautiful because I I I made it that experience, but you know, they kind of send you home and they're like, goodbye, good luck. And then I was like, okay, there's so much, there's so much left here to like trial and error. And it wasn't because I didn't, you know, do all the research first. That's not why I felt like I kind of was just like left to figure it out. 


And of course I needed some breastfeeding stuff. And after that, I went back to my corporate job and got laid off. And I was like, I never, ever, ever want to go back to work again. I felt like super pulled into. You know, being the person who comes to your house, and I didn't know what it was, and I, I didn't know there was a postpartum doula thing I went back to school for nursing, and realized very quickly I didn't want the clinical piece of it. 


I wanted the mental and emotional and relationship and social piece, and Googled and flew down to North Carolina, took a postpartum doula training and literally dove in head first and my oldest one is going to be 16 soon. So it like just propelled me. It like opened my eyes to something that was such a needed service, but I actually didn't know at the time just how needed it was. 


Really focusing on postpartum because I realized just my lifestyle is not the on call lifestyle. I like to go to bed and know that I'm going to get a solid eight hours. Like I'm not, I don't like to be, you know, kind of the unknown. And with kids it's hard too, but I realized very quickly that here in, The United States, we do not have a village. 


We do not live five minutes away from our mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters. Like we go to college and we don't come home. And all of my clients were, you know, had little to no support, whether their families were across the world, you know, just across the country. Or we have a lot of older clients and their parents are older and they're just not able to dive in and, and be that, you know, quote unquote doula. 


So I had my second and third daughters, I have three daughters. The last two were incredible, incredible home births. Like, I, I mean, they couldn't have been any better, and, you know, I don't get to, I don't get to talk about it a lot, I don't get to tell my stories a lot, because I had three very different but beautiful experiences, they were so positive, so, I'm, like, I, I'm still empowered by them but, there's, There's not a lot of, there's not a lot of good stories. 


Yeah. 


What we can do in the role, the role we play in these new mama's lives. So that's just a side note. All right. So can you tell everyone what is a postpartum doula and what type of services does a postpartum doula 


Jodi: provide? Of course. So a postpartum doula, really our, our focus is mothering the mother or, you know, parenting the parent. 


We really do focus on prioritizing the birth parents. So the mom you know, making sure she is or they are, you know, feeling good emotionally and mentally and physically healing. Because if they're not on their A game, you know, if they're unraveling, everything else is unraveling. So that is the most important part. 


Swaddling and even nail cutting and cord care like the nitty gritty stuff But really setting them up for this like see as seamless as possible Transition from you know, just being people to being parents a new family and whether it's their first or it's their fifth We have just started in my business having our three piece. 


They don't stay put like they used to. In a lot of other countries, you live in a very close proximity to your grandparents and your parents and your aunts and your sisters. And everyone jumps in immediately when you have a baby, whether it's, you know, Holding the baby or doing the cooking or doing the cleaning so you don't have to do anything and here we're like expected to be like super woman Jump back into things get everything, you know taken care of like we didn't even skip a beat and we don't get the time or the space for the the self care and like I said before, you know As a postpartum doula, we really prioritize that's important because when she's good, everything's good, when she's not good, nothing is going well. 


so much. We do weekly hangouts with our pregnant mamas and some of these girls have been hanging out with me from preconception. So that's a long time. In November, October, we added a postpartum hangout every other week and has become so precious to my entire team. It's so important. It's so important. So while you're talking, I'm picturing some of my mamas like Kayla and Quincy and Cassie and Emily. 


And I'm And I'm just picturing them and thinking, I wish I could hire a postpartum doula for all of them because they've had a really hard time and I would love to be able to bless them. I think it's such a gift. So now can you tell me what is the difference between a postpartum doula and a baby care person or is there even a 


Jodi: difference? 


So they don't. Take a look at the big picture and how everything kind of fits together. And a lot of newborn care specialists are also postpartum doulas. So they call it like a hybrid. So they're trained in both. So they can be really versatile. They can either do newborn care, postpartum care, you know, a little bit of both. 


But it's just, it's a difference on the focus. So, a lot of, we get a lot of inquiries for like a quote unquote baby nurse which is a really outdated term because nobody's a nurse, so nobody can call themselves a nurse. So it's more for, you know, they, they want overnight newborn care or like a night nanny, they call it. 


Trish: I know you kind of touched base on the services that you provide and the courses you provide. 


But can you really quickly just tell us what type of training a postpartum doula has before she's licensed or is she certified? How does that work? 


Jodi: Yep. So after your postpartum doula training, so it's classroom hours you know, and if you're an RN, you get RN credit. You, you know, sit for however long and they turn to virtual during COVID. 


And now we're kind of back to a little bit of both. There is a certification process and i'm speaking on behalf of you know, the organization that I trained for kappa you it's a two you get two years to pursue this certification after so it is there's a lot of reading list you have to sit in on Breastfeeding courses. 


But it it can be You know, it can be as short as a couple of months. So, you know, we have a lot of people who become postpartum doulas. They come from the nursing field, the nanny field social workers, people with early education majors, daycare centers. So this is not their first experience with new families and newborns. 


Oh, I love that. So it's a big variety of people that are moving into postpartum doulas, but it is such, postpartum doulas are in such high demand right now that You take the training and you literally can be busy. I mean, from the get go, there's no kind of get your feet wet period and you know, kind of figure yourself out, you're in. 


Which is incredible. And, and even now, I mean we have 40 doulas, birth and postpartum in my agency. And I'm still sometimes saying to, to a potential client that I don't have availability. It's wild. 


So, our list gives her some guiding questions. to find a provider that fits with her. So I'm wondering if you could give me some examples that a new mom or a. Mom to be would ask when she's interviewing a postpartum doula. 


Jodi: Sure and you, you hit it, you said it perfectly. You know, they don't know what they need and they don't know what to ask. 


So when I talk to potential clients, I absolutely lead the conversation. I have a whole list of questions that I... I ask them, and there are these open ended questions, so they can start to, like, tell their story, and then I'm, you know, furiously writing down notes so I can match them. But really asking just about, you know, your postpartum doula's experience why, you know, kind of what, what journey led them to be a postpartum doula, and I find that to be a really important question because there's, there's beauty in everyone's reason, but sometimes they find just a connection point. 


And I think just getting to talk to someone, you get a good feel for their personality. And. You know, my whole team is, is based on people that I've trained. So I know everyone's quality of care. I know everyone's scope of practice, but kind of like dating it's personality match. This person is going to be next to you at like the most vulnerable, intimate time, whether it's birth or postpartum, when you could be at your highest high, but also at your lowest low you know, you're naked sometimes. 


I mean, it's, it's, it's, it is a very, very like. solid connection that you need to have with someone because you want it to be, you know, you want to have that when you're there next to you. One of the questions that I also think is really important is just how they learn. I always kind of weave that to the conversation. 


I'm super warm super like motherly But my birth doula for my birth was like, you know boot camp I don't want anyone touching me like I needed someone the very opposite of me To, to, to, to make me feel like calm. So it's good to know, like, what, what someone, you know, how they would receive different, you know, scenarios, and then you pick based on that. 


Cause everyone's a different way. So 


You have to have a personality connection, in my opinion, when you choose whether a birth doula or a postpartum doula, because like you said, they're In your space. So there it's your personal space. So buyer beware, make sure that you connect. So if there's something that your mom instinct or just something inside of you is like, I don't really know if I like this person, even though they're. 


Overqualified and I know they will benefit me. I would say don't choose them. They're probably not good for you. Just 


Ask for recommendations, ask for someone else's experience because birth and postpartum care is not something that you necessarily like find in a magazine or Google. You want someone who has had an experience with this person, right? Cause it's so personal. So the best, I mean, all of, most of, you know, the doula businesses are built on word of mouth and that's for a reason. 


Because it is such, like you said, an intimate relationship, so you want someone else who's worked with them or just other people's experiences to help you, you know, find that perfect person. 


Trish: So that leads me into the next part of what I want to talk about because I am sure there's a lot of moms who are listening who are like, hell yeah, I would love to do this. 


This is amazing, but how much does it cost? So can you give us an idea financially what a postpartum doula would 


It depends on, you know, who you're choosing. It depends on, you know, the area you're in. It is most definitely an investment. It is starting to be covered by insurance at this point. It's more like you know, Medicaid or, you know, California's Medi Cal those type of insurances which aren't reimbursing what your doula is worth. 


So that is, you know, kind of leaving a lot of people in flux right now. Some of the private insurance. Agencies are are starting to, you know, present what their coverage is going to be but they're still at a point where they don't really understand the value of it. They don't understand the purpose of it. 


You don't have to do it alone, even when we're not next to you. You can text, you can FaceTime. If you're having a breastfeeding issue, you take your phone and, you know, we FaceTime and I can see what the latch looks like. And it doesn't have to be this long formal, you know, four hour period where I'm with you. 


If you want to FaceTime for 20 minutes, we can do that. So it's this, this continuity of care that even when I'm not next to you, you have someone to reach out to. And we know that, you know, when you feel like you have no one, your anxiety is through the roof. When you, when you know you have someone to reach out to. 


It's definitely worth it because it sets you up for, for a lifetime. I mean, parenting is a long time. You know, my kids are 5, 6, and 15 and everyone's in a different place. And, you know, Trish, you said you have someone in their 30s. You're still parenting them. Like you're, they're not, they're not away. So you want to set yourself up for success and start on a really positive note. 


Because it's not just. The physical piece. It's not just the logistics of parenting. It's your emotional health, your mental health, and that stays with you. Your birth and postpartum experience stays with you for a long, long time. I love 


Trish: that because my next question was, does insurance cover postpartum doulas? 


Pay for a doula. Meals are fantastic. Diapers are great. All the baby care items are great, but you are so important and it's important to invest into you. You have to have all those things, but your mental health, your future mental health is very important. 


Jodi: We have a lot of grandparents that are paying like they're, they don't necessarily know what they're, you know, Grandchildren need and they can't wait to be grandparents. 


I 


Trish: love this topic because I am so passionate about mom's self care. And like you said, if you invest in yourself and in your physical, your mental health, this is something we tell all of our girls in Calm Mama Society. And I love that you said it. Just having someone that you can talk to, someone who listens, someone who's there can make all the difference in the world. 


And that's exactly why we created our... pregnancy and postpartum membership community. We give them virtual support because if we have a student who has bought the birth class and also a member in our membership, she gets what we call our labor bat signal. And our labor bat signal is a direct like group chat with me and my team doulas and the mama from 37 weeks to six weeks postpartum. 


Jodi: Yes, and she's a safe, educated space and, and, you know, there are definitely, we see a lot of postpartum clients that have had traumatic births and need to talk about it and need someone to listen and need to work it out before they start parenting. 


And with the best of intentions, you know, your friends and your family don't always say the right things. And, you know, an everyday example is a cesarean birth, right? Trish and I could have had the same labor, same outcome, which was a cesarean birth. You know, she walks away and she's like, okay, like I'm a little sore, but I have a beautiful baby, and now I'm going home and I'm traumatized. 


You have a beautiful baby in your arms. Like, you know, we need to move on now. And, and, and, and like I said, it comes from a place of, of love, but it's not helpful and your doula gets it and your doula understands and even partners, a lot of partners, if they can't see something like physically see a problem, they don't. 


See a problem, but a lot of the postpartum time is hormonal and it's mental and emotional and it's not something you can see. So if your partner's not a doula or if they're not trained in like perinatal health, how on earth would we expect them? To be helpful because they don't see, you know, air quotes, see the problem. 


So your doula also bridges that with the partner and kind of helps them understand, you know, what's happening, the things they can't see, and it really facilitates some good communication. So 


Jodi: We care for the whole family. We make sure that the partner, the dad, whoever it is. gets in there like ASAP, rolls their sleeves up, and really becomes an educated, confident parent. So then they're empowered to jump in at any time. And I mean, if you don't get that partner in from the get go, they become the person that holds the baby when the mom pees. 


It's so easy to get into that where the mom does it the fastest, the best, the easiest, so then she's always doing all the stuff, right? And we forget sometimes that, you know, the person who works outside of the house They're missing everything. Sometimes I'm like, Oh my God, you're so lucky. You get to go to work, like where it's quiet. 


And, you know, we create different scenarios, you know, when the person who works outside of the house, when they come home at six o'clock, what does that look like? Who's responsible for baby? Who's making dinner? Who's relaxing? So, We make sure all of those things are set up for success, so there's no animosity. 


And because we've already, like, talked about those scenarios and laughed about them, when they actually happen, It's much lighter, you know, the mom feels like she can say, you know what I know you want to go out after work But tonight could you just come home and maybe can you go out next week? 


Whereas, you know, most of us are like, yeah Yeah, of course go out you do you and then we're home we're angry and they come home and it's like a knockdown drag outside so we make sure communication is like first and foremost very important. But that they're, that they feel like they're, you know, as equal as they can be. 


We know it's not ever 50 50, but as close to 50 as it can be that other parent, you know, is right in there. Yeah. 


And if I can say anything to you listening. new moms, young moms, whether your children are really young or you're about to have your first is to learn to accept imperfect help because the more you critique, the more you judge the people who are helping you or try to correct them. The less likely they are to help you and for your partner and for the other parent and this scenario, their confidence is being built. 


So it's okay if they do it a little different than you. It's okay if they do it slower. Take the help. Praise them. Don't critique them. You know, unless they're doing something unsafe with the 


Kind of put your blinders on and be like you do it the way you want to do it I'm appreciative of everything you do. But that takes a minute that especially if you're I mean a lot of women are like I got it. I got it and i'm the same way I had one of my students as a postpartum doula for my second one And I was like, you know, let me make you lunch and she's like like what she's like sit down I will make you lunch, but we just we want to get up and do like that's just our nature so you have to be comfortable we say And this is unrealistic if it's not your first baby. 


And you don't have like postpartum support. 5 days in your bed, 5 days on your bed, 5 days around your bed. And all of, all of those 15 days are letting people wait on you. You do not get yourself any water. You do not even think about doing anything except showering, going to the bathroom and taking care of the baby. 


Meals are done for you. I mean, and this isn't in an ideal world, but five days in your bed, five days on your bed, five days around your bed. 


Jodi: And if it's like you're, if it's not your first baby, we cut it down to three, but ideally we want, you know, at least two weeks. 


I mean, and that feels like not even enough time, but for you to be just, you are off limits for doing anything, but. The, the very, very, very necessity, shower, go to the bathroom, brush your teeth, because no one's doing that for you. Everything else, anyone can do for you. 


Trish: I just remembered we had a workshop inside of the community. 


That's where we talked about accepting imperfect help. We do weekly workshops, expert workshops inside of our community. So that was what, mom brain all the way. So before we end this episode, that leads me into another question and something that we talk about a lot with our mamas inside of our membership is setting boundaries with the postpartum doulas help. 


Jodi: to hear your thoughts on that. So we do a variety of like bouncer style, you know, help. 


If the grandparents are there, you know, we are able to kind of figure out with the mom ahead of time, you know, what are good tasks for them, you know. figure out the relationship. If it's a great one that, you know, grandma's going to be right there. If it's like not a great one, you know, other things they can do. 


But really making sure that, you know, our clients have the words to say, we want you to see the baby. We want to have you over. However, we are taking this time without visitors. A wonderful thing to do is have visiting hours Tuesday from five to seven, anyone who wants to come over, you can come over. 


So people are, you know, keeping her company, but they're not necessarily like touching or wanting to hold. I mean, there's so many different ways we can do it depending on, you know, parents comfort level. But yeah, we definitely talk a lot about visitor boundaries and, you know, when someone has visitors. 


Drop a meal off. Do not bring a burp cloth. Do not bring, like, a onesie. We don't need any more of those things. What's helpful now is food or gift cards for food or, and your doula does a lot of meal prep and, or could do shopping or cooking and We can set up a meal train too if a lot of, you know, girlfriends want to set something up. 


We can help facilitate that. Okay, so I'm 


Trish: eight years postpartum with Grayson. Is it too late to have a postpartum doula? Because I would really love some meal prepping. Like, oh my gosh, please go grocery shopping for me. 


And I'll see you tomorrow. Like, I don't need help with anything else. I just want some, and I went to culinary school. Like, I love to cook. I love, but I love to do it on my own time. I don't want to do it every night for dinner. Yeah. 


Trish: So when you're hiring a doula, look for one that has a history that went to culinary school like Jodi. 


Jodi: Yes. I love, love cooking for clients. And it's so, we underestimate like the power of nourishment. I mean, that is so important. I mean, postpartum, yes, but in everyday life, yes, but Postpartum nourishment is, I mean, you are what you eat. So you eat well, you feel well. And we know the specific ingredients and, you know, different vegetables and vitamins and minerals and things that you need for breastfeeding and just for overall healing and care. 


I can't remember who said that someone did, but it's true. It's true. 


Trish: I love that because there's so much power in a meal and it's not just the food is nourishment. It's the whole experience. That's what I say about my coffee in the morning. Like it's not just the coffee. Honestly, it's the whole experience. 


It's the warm cup. I like a real cup. I don't like a fake cup. I'm a real cup type of girl. It's the whole experience. So I love that. And for those of you guys listening, meal trains are fantastic. There's a lot of meal services. I'll link to them in the show notes. If you're a grandparent or an aunt or an uncle, some family member who's listening and your family member is having a baby, this is a valuable way that you can support mom. 


All right, Jodi, I am so excited about you coming here today. This episode's going to be so powerful, and for those of you guys listening I just, a little face just peeked around Jodi. I'm loving it. While we've been recording, I've seen her do the mom eyes, like, don't come in here. Don't talk. So let my listeners know where they can find you. 


I know you're in the Boston area, but let them know where they can find you online. 


Jodi: Yep, hiptoheart. com is my website and it's for parents and for professionals. So there's two parts to it. I'm hiptoheart on Instagram, hiptoheart on Facebook, everywhere. YouTube, hiptoheart. So you really can find me anywhere and it's pretty easy to remember. 


Trish: I love it. Thank you so much for being on 


Trish: What a powerful episode about choosing your postpartum doula, how a postpartum doula can help you navigate those early days as a new mom. Hit subscribe, leave a review, and as always, I will see you again next Friday. Bye for now!