“Touched Out” & No Sex Drive After Baby? Here’s What’s Really Going On (Sex Therapist Explains) | 266

If your sex life has basically, like, disappeared since you had a baby, I need you to hear this.

Most couples think that the problem is that one person wants sex, the other doesn't.

But a certified sex therapist with 15 years in this just told me the real issue is almost never about sex at all.

It's about one partner who is so touched out, so overloaded, hormones out of control, that her body has nothing left to give, and the other partner is probably taking it personally.

So today, we are getting into exactly what is actually going on and three ways you can start reconnecting today, even if nothing else changes.

Welcome back to the Birth Experience Podcast.

I am so glad that you're here for this one, because this was a heavy conversation.

I actually recorded this a couple months ago, and the audio was off, so I am so excited to have back today's guest, Dr.

Rebecca Howard UD.

She is a certified sex therapist, a couples therapist, which means she has this very specific and very rare combination of clinical training in both relationship science and human sexuality.

She has a PhD in clinical sexology.

I say that right?

I think so.

She is certified in emotionally focused couples therapy, and she's done this for 15 years.

She also has a book called Parents in Love: A Guide to Great Sex After Kids, which you need to go immediately.

We'll put a link in the show notes.

I am so excited, so let's get started.

Good morning, Dr. Rebecca.

I, I'm just laughing.

For those of you guys listening, Rebecca and I already recorded in, like, April, right?

Was it?

In- We

know each other so well.

Yeah.

March.

I know.

Yeah.

And it was such a good episode, but my audio was messed up, so we're re-recording, and I'm hoping that we can pick up where we left off, which we had such a great conversation.

So I've already intro'd you to my audience, but I'd love you just to give a little backstory, and then let's just dive in.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, so I am a couples therapist and a sex therapist.

I am certified in emotionally focused therapy and also in sex therapy.

And so most of the people… I'm in private practice, so I only see couples.

Most of the people who come to me have both emotional and sexual disconnection, but not always.

You know, some have one or the other.

And I'm also a mom myself.

I've been married for I don't even know how long.

Over a decade.

It's like I'd have to go back and do some math, which is not my strong- Yeah … my strong suit.

And I have two kids who are 10 and 11.

So, you know, this is the stuff of both my life and my work.

I love it so much, and I wanna hop right into, let's talk about after baby and how those dynamics change because I do believe it is emotional, which can lead to the sexual disconnection.

Mm. The sexual can lead to the emotional.

Like, it's a vicious cycle, so let's, like, hop right into talking about, like, intimacy after baby and how these couples can reconnect because I think-

Yeah

hopefully, I mean, maybe one doesn't really care if they reconnect or not, but also knows it's important or what have you.

Yeah.

So I think that it's common that, couples have different ways that they prefer to reconnect, so I think that most of the couples that I see really do wanna reconnect.

Some may feel really stuck in either the emotional or the sexual realm.

Mm.

So for instance, you may have someone who has just, like, no desire, really low desire.

It's super common after a baby's born.

People talk about being touched out.

It's also really common in perimenopause, lots of hormones- Mm … that really influence desire in both of those time periods.

Yeah.

And then the mental load is also really heavy, so a lot of folks who are going through perimenopause also have, you know, school-aged children.

And same after baby's born, it's a huge change in the family- Mm … where the mental load for that primary parent, who is often the female member if, if a heterosexual couple, really heavy.

That also really shuts down desire.

But even those folks who are not feeling desire to be sexual with their partner do want connection.

Mm-hmm.

Often they want more access to their partner.

They want their partner to be more emotionally available.

They want help.

So that's all connection, feeling connected with, feeling like you have someone who's on your team, who has your back.

Mm-hmm.

so then you might also have a partner who is more of the sexual pursuer- Mm-hmm … who wants to have sex more, who has a higher desire, and they're talking about that's how they wanna connect, that's how they wanna connect.

Yeah.

But they may struggle more in the emotional realm.

They may struggle to know how to show up for their partner, which is maybe why the sexual connection is their preferred way of connecting.

So honestly, I kind of see these as being two sides of the same coin.

It's all connection.

It's all interconnected.

But one of the things that I think therapists often really get wrong is assuming that if we fix the emotional connection, the sexual connection is just gonna fall into line.

And so, you know, in some ways I think that this kinda lets us off the hook as therapists- Mm-hmm

where we don't have to talk about it, 'cause it can be- Yeah … a little uncomfortable.

You know, we're like, "Oh, let's just fix the emotional connection." Yeah.

"And then the sex is gonna ha- you know, the sex is just gonna naturally happen." But that's not really true.

You know, we, we really do need to focus on both of these areas.

I find that so interesting because you're right.

Like, I feel like everybody dives into this one area But at the same time, I think even in our brains as women or as couples, we see it as two different- Mm-hmm … separate things or problems.

Like, you know?

So everything you're saying is so resonating to me.

I am definitely in the throes of perimenopause, but since my son and daughter-in-law edit the podcast, we won't go deep diving into that.

But I know last time you said one thing that really stood out to me is you were saying, and I forget how you labeled the person that wants to have sex all the time.

Mm-hmm.

The

pursuer.

The pursuer, right.

and, and what I've seen, and like just doing my own research, 'cause I spend a lot of time with postpartum moms and pregnant moms, 'cause sometimes with pregnant moms they either have really high libido or none- Mm-hmm … because they're sick the entire pregnancy, not feeling good, not feeling confident about their body.

but what I've gathered in my own little pursuit of knowledge here is that you've got the one who's the pursuer, and then you've got the one who is avoiding because they're afraid if they show any attention, the pursuer is gonna be like, "Yes, it's game time."

Mm-hmm.

You know?

So like- Mm-hmm, so it's jar- Which again…

Yeah, which again puts them- Yeah … into this negative cycle.

So I would love- Mm-hmm … for you to talk to the pursuer, if they're listening.

Chances are I probably have more avoiders listening . But can you talk to either one of them and how they can, like bridge that gap in a way, and I'm sure it comes down to communication, but…

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

So the thing that's really important for the pursuers out there to understand is that nobody is entitled to anything from anybody else, especially not sex.

Mm-hmm.

So nobody's entitled to anybody's body.

in a monogamous relationship, if you're not getting the sexual connection that you want, people often feel really stuck, really frustrated, and that's completely understandable.

Mm-hmm.

When that is the leading, like, you owe me sex- Mm-hmm … whether it's explicit or not so explicit, which-

Yeah

… Rebecca: m- more often it's not Like,

I need this and you owe it to me.

That's right.

Yeah.

So the you owe it to me is often left off.

Yeah.

But people talk about their needs not being met, their sexual needs not being fulfilled, feeling really frustrated, feeling angry, grumpy, resentful.

Mm-hmm.

And all of those feelings are completely understandable.

You know, it's, it's really challenging to be- Mm-hmm … in a relationship where you're not feeling like you're getting your needs met.

But the need is not just for sex.

It's not just for an orgasm.

If that was the need, then you would just… the, the sexual pursuer would just masturbate, and that would take care of that need.

That's the sexual need.

Mm-hmm.

But what the need really is is the need for connection.

Okay.

The, the wanting to be wanted, to feel like you're in a relationship where your partner wants to be sexual with you.

And a lot of times for the sexual withdrawer, you know, they're not withholding to be spiteful.

they are struggling.

Mm-hmm.

They're really having a hard time for whatever reason that is, and there's a number of different reasons that this can happen-

Mm-hmm

… Rebecca: to be able to show up and feel like they want to be sexual.

So they often feel like, " My desire just, like, is gone.

I don't know where it went.

I don't know how to get it back."

Mm-hmm.

And because they feel like they're consistently letting their partner down again and again, they do start to avoid, and they tend to stop talking about it.

They might fight about it, but they're not necessarily talking about it.

Okay.

And so the way that this works, you know, it is communication.

Yeah.

But the sexual withdrawer, the person who has less spontaneous desire in the relationship, needs to be responsible for their own desire in the same way that the sexual pursuer also needs to take responsibility for their own desire.

We're not ever responsible for somebody else's desire.

And that, that's a really deep thought when you- Mm-hmm

if you really think about it, especially if you grew up in the church.

Yeah.

Because in the church, women are made to believe that it's their responsibility to fulfill that desire for their partner.

Exactly.

Otherwise, you know-

Mm-hmm

… Trish: they could find it- Loose … elsewhere or whatever.

Yeah.

You know?

Like-

Yeah, yeah

and that's really heavy to put on a person.

It is.

So I love, I love that spin, and I feel like we could just literally talk just about that.

Mm-hmm.

But I think that-

Yeah, it's complicated.

Yeah.

I mean, it can be really complicated.

Yeah.

And there's lots of good reasons why people struggle with their own desire.

Mm-hmm.

and finding their own desire and connecting with their partner.

Mm-hmm.

but, but yeah, I mean, I'm saying it like it's really simple, but- Yeah … it can be really complicated.

Yeah, and I do agree because there's so many things that, you know, most of my audience, they, they're either pregnant or just had a baby, and there's so many things that when you go through birth, especially for the first time, but honestly for all of them 'cause I've given birth six times-

Mm-hmm

that it can be very triggering when it comes to sexual things.

Mm-hmm.

Especially, and I'll, I mean, I'll just say it because the majority of women I know, and a lot of men, have been sexually abused in some- Mm-hmm … form or fashion.

And so what I see in my community and what I see as a labor and delivery nurse, 'cause I'm there during that intimate moment- Mm-hmm

birth in particular can trigger a lot of those very repressed, buried experiences and because, you know, it's obviously centered around your, your sexual organs, right?

And I think, too, during postpartum, you're so raw.

And emotional.

For some women it might be the first time that they're not … I don't know if I've gotten off track, but they're not feeling like themselves.

They're feeling raw and emotional, and a lot of these emotions are coming up, and then they're feeling almost pressured, like, "I should feel this way", which triggers- Mm … a lot of those past things, right?

So- Mm-hmm … it's really, really complicated.

And what is your advice to, like, no matter where it's coming from or what, what is your advice to these new moms?

Most of my audience i- is the mom listening.

Like-

Mm-hmm

… Trish: what are some practical … 'Cause it's all good and well for us to, like, bring this to attention, right?

But what can she do about it?

If you have a mom who's listening who is feeling like there's some childhood trauma that's being triggered, i- you're absolutely right.

It can be really common.

The experience of being pregnant, of giving birth, of if they've, if they're choosing to breastfeed, that all of that giving from your body can actually unearth, you know, sort of repressed memories.

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

But also anybody who's had any sort of a complicated relationship with their body, which is probably most women who are listening.

Yeah.

You know, if there's been a history of an eating disorder or any sort of you know, difficulty in your own body, Yeah … the changes that our bodies go through and as quickly as they do-

Yeah

… Rebecca: between pregnancy Childbirth, breastfeeding, postpartum bodies, which never really go back to the same way- Yeah

even though we have this bounce back.

Your breasts.

Your breasts- Yeah.

… are completely different.

Yeah.

You know, completely desexualized for a period of time.

Yeah.

There is the need to be able to reclaim your body.

And in the case of these buried memories of childhood abuse that can come up, with the help of a trusted therapist- Mm-hmm

reclaiming your own body for yourself is the first step.

But even if we're just talking about, you know, there's not been any abuse, but just reclaiming- Mm-hmm … after having a baby, the, the child's on you all the time.

Yeah.

I mean, this is just something

that- Your body's

been hijacked … women have to do.

Yeah.

Your body has been hijacked.

Yeah.

And so usually I actually recommend that women start with self-pleasure.

You know, a lot of times people are like, "Okay, so what feels good? What feels weird?" You know, if you've had- Yeah … a C-section or an episiotomy, there's can be scar tissue-

Yeah, stitches, all of that

that can

make… All of that.

Yeah.

And so what does your body feel like to you?

Are there areas that are, you know, more sensitive than they used to be?

Yeah.

Are there areas that really feel weird or bad to be touched that you used to enjoy?

Sometimes for people, they find that, you know, since we're talking about the breasts, when they're breastfeeding, they can feel like that's sort of a no-go zone.

For other people, they may find that their breasts are much more sensitive and it's actually- Mm-hmm … quite pleasurable.

And so it, it, you know, there's no right or wrong.

It's just reacquainting yourself with your own body.

So self-pleasure is a really good place to start because the thing about a partnered sexual experience is that you're inviting somebody else into your own sexuality, right?

Mm-hmm.

So a lot of times when the person who has less desire in the relationship, when they're saying no, they're not really saying no to their partner.

They're saying no to the experience.

And the reasons why they're saying no may be because they are not feeling good in their own body.

Mm-hmm.

They may feel bloated.

They may feel like their stomach hurts.

They may feel touched out.

They may feel not particularly sexy.

Yeah … you know, if they're covered in spit-up and they're wearing the- Yeah … you know, same clothes and they haven't showered- Yeah … in five days, who wants to have sex in that scenario?

Right.

And so really being able to reclaim so that then you can share with your partner that connection, that sexual connection.

Yeah.

Otherwise, it ends up just being an obligation, and it may- Mm-hmm … it, you know, if it's, if it's pleasurable, there's nothing wrong with having sex that feels like, oh, I'm not that into it, but, you know, this…

I know it's gonna be good for my relationship.

if-

Yeah

… Rebecca: you know, if that works for you, But if that's what it is all the time, it can start to just feel like another check, like item on the

checklist.

A chore.

Yeah.

A chore, and then it falls way down the list, first of all.

Mm-hmm.

You start to resent your partner because they're an adult who shouldn't-

Yeah

necessarily be on your list.

You want their help, not to-

Yeah

… Rebecca: have to, you know, take care of something else for them.

But it also can start to, sort of squash that desire, and a lot of times what ends up happening is, say, you know, people have this like clock in their head.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, well, you know, we gotta have s- sex once a week or maybe once every other week, or else my partner's gonna get really grumpy.

Yeah.

And so then they do it once a week or, you know, every two weeks or something like that, and then it kinda resets the clock, and they're like, "Okay, I don't have to worry about that again for a little while." So if that's the situation that people are in, honestly, it's so common.

It's so normal.

Mm-hmm.

And, but if it goes on long-term, then it's not gonna be something that people are looking forward to or they're craving.

It starts to set up this sort of, obligation, which long-term is not good for desire.

Which your partner, I would assume, can- Can feel … sense that as well.

Oh,

absolutely.

But I wanna kinda back up a little.

It's so

unsatisfying.

Yes, please.

Because it reminded me of something we talked about last time that I thought was really powerful, is the resentment, and when you were saying- Mm-hmm … like she hasn't bathed, she's been touched all day.

Like, she's carrying… Like, let's be real, a lot of women carry the heavier load of the mental load of parenting- Mm-hmm

and the physical load.

So let's talk about that resentment because I feel like that is a- another hot topic inside of my community.

Mm-hmm.

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So resentment is basically the feeling of being unappreciated.

And so a lot of times what ends up happening is when resentment starts to build in a relationship, it's like you're having a competition of who's working harder Mm-hmm.

And so, you know, your partner walks in the door or you walk in the door and you say, "Ah, well, how was your day?" "Well, it was really bad.

How was yours?" Yeah.

"Oh, well, the kids were terrible," or, "I had this horrible meeting." And you're sort of like trying to out… You know.

Yeah.

You… What, what we really want is appreciation, is admiration, is gratitude.

And so all of those things are the antidote to resentment And what ends up happening is when we feel unappreciated over the long term, then that starts to build up.

And it may be unsaid or it may be said, but not resolved-

Okay

… Rebecca: where we don't feel like we've got somebody who really appreciates us and sees us.

And so then over time, the resentment, I mean, it is very corrosive to a relationship.

It's also very normal.

You know, I almost don't know any relationships that don't have some resentment in them.

Yeah,

some level of it.

Like, so-

Yeah

… Rebecca: yeah, I mean, like, nobody panic if you have resentment in your relationship.

Okay.

It makes you completely normal and human, but it is corrosive over- Yeah … the long term when you have that.

Well,

well, don't you think a lot of times it's also, she does want the validation and all of that, but she also wants some practical help here.

Like- Mm-hmm … take the baby and let me go in the bathroom, take a shower, and scroll Instagram or whatever the hell I wanna do, but let me have some time to be me, 'cause you get to leave and go to work, or you get to sleep during the night because you leave and go to work, and I am, like, baby-trapped all the time.

So, like, I think- Yeah, that's, that's right … it's also, like, practical help that she needs.

And what I remember when my kids were young, that I … It almost felt like he was doing me a favor- Mm … instead of he's parenting.

Correct, yeah.

And, it just felt very uneven-

Yeah, yeah

… Trish: which caused a lot of resentment.

Right.

So there's this thing where, you know, the, the primary parent is sort of, the mental load is all-encompassing.

Mm-hmm.

" Rebecca: Oh, is there anything…" You know, and the partner trying to be helpful will say things like, "Is there anything else I can do for you?" Yeah.

And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no.

Already we've, we're getting it wrong- Yeah … because when we walk in the door, like, when does the primary parent's job end?

Yeah.

You know, once- When

do I clock

out?

If there's two adults… Yeah, yeah.

If there's two adults- Yeah … who are home and who are in the house, you're co-parenting, which means- Yeah … that if you wanna go and you wanna take a long shower, you need to ask for permission, "Hey, is it okay if I go and do this?"

Yeah.

If you wanna go and work out, if you wanna go and, I don't know- Yeah … like, mow the lawn or whatever-

Yeah

… " Rebecca: Hey, I was thinking I'd like to do this thing.

How does that work?

Do you mind hanging out with the kids while I do that?" Both people are responsible.

Yeah.

And so, so often that's not the case, that's not the setup, and it does create resentment- Mm-hmm

over the long term.

But I also really wanna speak to those primary parents who, you know, often- mom, one of the things that I see a lot is that they want help, but they want the help to be done their way.

And that is not- Yes.

… realistic.

No.

I mean, I get it.

Yeah.

I want that too, and it feels so good when we can get that.

Yeah.

But, you know, I'll give you an example.

So my husband, I was… You know, when my kids were really young, I was home with them full-time-

Mm-hmm

… Rebecca: for a couple of years, and then I worked very part-time for a few more years.

And still even now, I'm really the primary parent, even though I've got a private practice and a podcast and all of the other things.

You know, I'm the one who's doing the dentist appointments and stuff.

Yeah.

And this is just, you know, it's the way that our life is structured.

It works for us.

But my husband would often do bedtime.

You know, he gets home, I'm absolutely exhausted.

Like it's been a crazy day.

I need to clock out- Yeah

for a little bit, and so he would

do bedtime.

I need time away from the little terrorists.

One, 100%.

Yeah.

Like, give me a dirty kitchen and- Yeah … like, a, a book on tape, and I am thrilled to clean up, but just-

Yeah

… Rebecca: don't, I don't wanna do bedtime, bath time, all of the things.

Yeah.

So, my husband was for…

You know, he's like, "Okay." very practical.

He wants to streamline the bedtime routine.

And so what he wants to do is he wants to get, this is like, our kids are really young.

They're like maybe- Yeah … like a year and two, that my kids are close together.

Yeah.

He wants to get rid of pajamas, which I am object, I object to on a number of levels.

W- first of all, they look adorable in their little pajamas.

Like,

yeah, I'm

so blown away right now.

Second of all-

Yeah

… Rebecca: like, people wear pajamas.

Like, this is what people do.

It signals bedtime, sir. We put

on pajamas.

I know, I know, I know.

But honestly, Trish, I was like, okay.

He wants to put them, he wants to bathe them, and then he wants to put them in their clothes for the next morning, because he's also there in the morning.

A lot of times he's getting them up.

And I was like, had to- I

can't do this … zip

my

lips,

sit on my hands, have a strong talking to with myself, and was like- Yeah … okay, I want him to do bedtime, and he does not want to deal with pajamas.

He would like to have them in clean clothes.

You know, they're gonna sleep in their clothes.

Yeah.

This is really hard for

me.

What if their clothes are, like, jeans or something that are uncomfortable?

No, please.

Okay.

My kids, all their clothes are athletic wear.

Like-

Okay

… Rebecca: you couldn't pay them-

That makes me feel a lot better … you

could not get them into a pair of jeans.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

I mean, the, the difference between the pajamas that they're wearing and the clothes that they're wearing is not that much.

It's just the look.

It's like-

Okay

… Rebecca: just the look, yeah.

Yeah.

And so I was like, stern talking to with myself.

You know, we probably- Yeah … might have had a couple of arguments about it where I was like, "No, no, this is really important." Yeah,

I need to walk myself- And he's like, "Yeah, but why?" … through this.

I'm not accepting it yet.

I know, I know.

It was really hard for me, too.

Yeah, because I love pajamas.

But I really wanted him to do bedtime.

Yeah.

I did, too.

Yeah.

I really wanted him to do bedtime.

Wait.

And so-

They're how old now?

How old are they now?

10 and 11.

They still wear pajamas.

Do

they put… Shush.

No.

Okay, this, I, I have to interject here, because when you first started talking, I wanted to share with you that years ago I did an episode, and then she came into the community and did a training, and it was called How to Accept Imperfect Help.

Mm-hmm.

And it was such a life-changing expert workshop for my community, for myself But I apparently need a lot more work, because- … I'm having a hard time with this.

I did too-

But my husband- … to be honest … would absolutely see the point, 'cause he thinks- Mm-hmm … that way too.

Like- Mm … he's the one that's reading, like, these in-depth, like, complicated books, and I'm reading, like, fairy smut.

So- Hm … this would be right along with him, 'cause it's very practical.

Very practical.

And you know, I put my foot… I was like, "We are not gonna wear the same clothes." Yeah.

There needs to be a change of clothes.

We-

Yeah

… Rebecca: you know, you can't wear the same clothes to school.

We're not gonna wear the dirty, sweaty clothes to bed that you wore all day.

There needs to be a shower in between.

So the… You know, we had some negotiation.

But they can wear what they're wearing to school?

Yeah.

Okay.

So- They sure can … interesting.

I'm not sure.

I'm gonna take some time to process this one.

I

know.

Well, you know what?

I bet you're… As I'm sharing this story, now I'm like, "Oh, shit, everybody's gonna be judging me."

They're like-

I think this is

great … "Rebecca's kids are, are going to school in their sleeping clothes." The

truth comes out.

The truth comes out.

But your, at least your kids aren't middle school, 'cause they'd probably be really mad that you shared this.

Oh, they are.

I have a middle schooler

now.

Okay, we're not gonna share- Well-

this with their

children … he's going to middle school.

Yeah.

Yeah, I know, right?

No, my son's- But this has

been going on now for- … going

to sixth grade too

… Rebecca: years.

Yeah, sixth grade, it's a big deal.

We're like… Anyway.

But he would have no problem with this.

It's me that has a problem with it.

But this is- Yeah … my point being, the kids now are fully on board.

I'm completely- Yeah … outnumbered.

I have two boys.

Yeah.

Even the dog's a boy.

Like, it's… I'm, I'm totally outnumbered, but I really wanted the help, is the thing.

Yeah.

That was the whole point of why- And so- … we're talking about this

… Rebecca: that was the whole point.

Yeah.

And so, you know, there were times that I was like, you know, the kids are…

They're 19 months apart.

It was crazy.

Yeah.

Like,

there were times that they're both crying, I'm crying.

We all sit down on the floor and cry, and I'm like, "I need to go to a-

However

it comes- … freaking yoga class"

… Trish: give me the help.

Yeah, exactly.

I love it.

And my husband early on was like, "I don't know. What if they cry?"

And I'm like, "You think they don't cry with me?"

Yeah.

I'm like, "So you can cry too. That's fine." Yeah.

"But here's a bottle, and I'll be back- Yeah … in an hour and a half. Don't call me." Like-

Yeah, what if they cry?

You know?

Uh, what do I do if they cry?

Do it.

That's right.

Yeah.

And so the thing is, is that we have to be flexible about- Mm-hmm

what kind of help we can accept.

It will be imperfect.

Yeah.

And it's okay for every parent to figure out the way that works for them, you know?

And my husband- Yeah … really felt like the way that worked for him w- was to supervise bath time.

He did a wonderful job.

He just didn't wanna deal with pajamas.

And so-

as his partner, I need to be respectful of-

Yeah

… Rebecca: him wanting to do it his way within reason.

I,

I went up- And then I got the help

… Trish: and you tested me to see how, where I was on this.

I think it's totally- Where I truly was on this.

And if you're listening, I feel you, and it took her a minute, but the point is, what was really good about that workshop is she said that if you're constantly critical or not taking that help- Mm

then you're training them to be, not to be confident.

Mm-hmm.

And they're not gonna offer the help because they know that they can't do it right, is basically what she said.

So I love that.

Yeah.

I, I'm very interested to know if your husband wore pajamas when he was growing up or not.

But-

Honestly, I have no idea.

Okay, interesting.

But he wears pajamas now.

I mean, he we- like, he, you know, he wears, like, athletic shorts.

He changes- Yeah, that's

what my husband does … into

pajamas every night for bed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You

know?

Oh, r- so weird.

Um.

Yeah.

But maybe he was going through a postpartum thing, and then it just became your family's thing.

But

anyway.

I honestly think that that's a lot of what it was.

He was so overwhelmed.

Yeah.

We were both so overwhelmed.

Let's simplify.

Yeah.

Let's simplify, and that, like, okay.

Yeah.

I

get it.

I

mean, you've got healthy children- Be where I would simplify … that are happy, and that's really what matters.

And- And that's what I tell my, my students as well, is that if he puts the diaper on backwards, so what?

He'll learn the lesson.

Like, let him learn- Yeah … the lesson so he becomes- That's right … a confident parent as well.

Okay, so I wanna kind of wrap this up.

I know last time we talked, you gave some practical connection tips, I believe, like some steps.

Mm-hmm.

So, like, give us like three things these couples can do right now to start moving towards a closer, w- whether it's sex, whether it's emotion, whatever, but a closer connection.

Yeah.

Okay.

So number one, I want couples to focus on the micro moments of connection.

So a micro moment of connection is like 10 seconds or less.

It can be the, you know, the touch across the back or, like when you're walking by someone in the kitchen.

It can be, a lock- you know, s- putting down your phone-

Mm-hmm

letting the kids scream, saying, "Hi, I'm so glad you're home." Like really actually tuning into each other.

Yeah.

It can be a, like a moment where you share a little inside joke.

It can be a hug where there's like a deep breath-

Yeah

… Rebecca: in the hug, a kiss, anything where you feel connected.

So it's gonna be different for each couple.

It should feel authentic to you.

Mm-hmm.

It should feel like this moment where you're connecting, and often it's connecting in the whirlwind.

Yeah.

So that's the first thing, those micro moments-

Okay

… Rebecca: saying thank you.

It can even be a text message.

That's a micro moment of connection.

"Thank you so much.

I really appreciate your help today.

I know you're working really hard.

I love what you're doing for our family." You know, whatever it is, it's- Yeah … based in appreciation.

It's based in warmth.

So those micro moments- And like I

see you

I see you.

Yeah.

That's what it should be.

Yeah.

I see you.

And not just I see you, you're my partner.

Yeah.

We're adults in this together.

So that is something that every couple can do right now today Teeny tiny, little, little, but it does sort of warm up the overall, the Gottmans call it the climate of the relationship.

Okay.

You know, there's the weather, which is the day-to-day.

You might have a stormy day, but if overall the climate is feeling warm.

And so the micro moments, those… that, that little weather moments where you're- Yeah … warming it up- Yeah … that overall makes the relationship- I love that … feel more.

So that's, you know, one thing that everybody can do today.

Okay.

And then the other thing that I really wanna encourage you know, the lower desire person, the, the more withdrawing person to do-

Mm-hmm

is to think about what's holding you back.

You know, so often people talk about how their desire changed when they have kids.

So what's holding you back?

Okay.

Is it being really touched out?

Is it being, overwhelmed?

Is it feeling unappreciated by your partner?

What is it that's holding you back?

Okay.

And once you can figure out what it is that's holding you back, then it's easier to communicate what could be different.

And I really encourage people to put this into positive language.

I really… You know, so an example of what that might look like is, "I really want to connect with you, and I think that when we try to have sex right after the kids go to bed, I'm so overwhelmed-

Mm-hmm

that I just really struggle to get there." And then once you have that in front of you, "I really want to-

Yeah

… Rebecca: do this with you," or even if it's like, "I really want to want to do this with you"- Yeah.

then, well, okay, what about nap time?

Okay, what about if your partner puts the kids to bed and you get to- Yeah

go and take a,

you know, a- Like have an hour.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Let me get-

And so-

Let me get back to me.

Yeah.

That is 100% exactly it, because caregiving is not sexy.

And so in order to- Yeah … get back to desire, we have to s- we have to- Yeah … have a stop in the middle where we get back to me.

Mm-hmm.

And

so that's really what I think that, a lot of new moms, can f- focus on, is actually that self-care.

Yeah.

And so that sort of leads me to my third thing, is that self-care is absolutely essential.

Self-care is sleeping.

Self-care is showering.

Self-care is moving your body.

Mm-hmm.

And so actually really find a way to do it.

Yeah.

You know, it might be during nap time.

It might be, you know, doing a baby share with a friend- Yeah … where you take their kids and then they take yours.

Yeah.

If there's family, if there's resources to hire a sitter, do it.

Because those moments of reconnection with yourself make you a better parent, they make you a better- Mm-hmm

partner.

They just… You know, and, and in those early days, it's like 10 minutes here and there.

It's, it doesn't have to be a lot.

Yeah.

It's not realistic that we get- a lot.

But if we can really cherish and find those moments, and prioritize them.

Yeah, that's such a powerful thing to start doing when you first become a mom, because you set up that pattern and that example.

Mm-hmm.

And I think a lot of times we get caught in this, like, survival mode, and we're not really setting up a pattern that's going to be sustainable.

So I love that.

Thank you so much for coming back again.

Yeah.

Yeah, well-

I appreciate it … enjoyed

the conversation, again.

Yeah, I do too.

And thank you so much for these tips.

Can you take a moment and just tell everyone about your book, about where they can find you, and all those wonderful things?

Yes, absolutely.

So the book is called Parents and Love: A Guide to Great Sex After Kids.

And you can get it anywhere books are sold, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all of those places.

And then people can find me on my website, which is my name, rebeccayudy.com, or on Instagram, which is Rebecca Howard Yudy.

And then I also have a podcast as well with a pelvic floor physical therapist, where we talk a lot about all things sex, relationships, pelvic floors.

So they can find me there as well.

I love it.

Thank you so much for coming today.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Okay, you guys.

I hope that you enjoyed this episode.

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