A Candid Conversation About Doulas, Birth Advocacy, and Birth Interventions | 147

Postpartum baby mom. She's a newborn care specialist. She's a birth doula She's a postpartum infant care doula she runs an amazing business called gold coast doulas where She has a team of doulas and specialists that just focus on this really Precious time that i'm obviously obsessed as well about as well.

But enough about me saying things about Kristen. Kristen, welcome and just give us a little download of where you came from, why you're passionate about what you're doing, and just tell us the fun things.

So when

Trish: Okay, hold up.

Kristin: I

Trish: love you already. What a switch. Yes. Okay. Sorry. I totally interrupted.

Kristin: You know. But I

Trish: had to, cause that is, you guys, I want you guys to listen to that. But we as women, like. We can choose to do what we want when we want.

Kristin: Absolutely. Yes.

Trish: I love that. Okay.

Kristin: So my passion when I was working in politics was to support women and have them run for office earlier, feel confident raising the money as a fundraiser.

So as I'm asking them for advice, their advice was outdated. I searched for a provider. My provider didn't seem to be on board with my goal to have an unmedicated birth. And so I kept asking my friends and found out about a nurse midwifery practice. That, focused on, you know, supporting all types of low, risk births.

And so I started I started to become interested in women's health, and by the time my son was born, my kids are 21 months apart, I started to look into childbirth education. So I had signed up for a training before he was born. And at four months, I took it and started teaching classes. Never wanted to be a Jew.

Look at

Trish: you.

Kristin: Oh

Exactly. I love it. I just have to say kudos because a lot of us as women are taught that we have to push down some of those desires that we have to do something bigger. And I say, if you feel that. Act on it. Do it.

Kristin: Absolutely.

Trish: And your life has completely changed and you've changed thousands of women's lives now.

Yes. Because you were willing to take action.

Kristin: 100%. I love it. And it started after my daughter was born with breastfeeding activism. And, you know, using my political connections to create some community events where we had different speakers. And then it led to Teaching classes and then my students asked me to be their doula.

Trish: or not.

Kristin: Yes.

Trish: Yes.

Trish: I, I love that you said that because one of the most powerful things I did for Labor Nurse Mama was write out our values and one of them is a judgment free zone. And one of my students summed it up so perfectly. She said, I love that Trish lays it all out like a smorgasbord and then we can pick and choose.

And the reason I'm so passionate about that is because Labor Nurse Mama was born from me sitting on the floor in the bathroom at work or sitting in my car bawling because I saw women's basic rights stripped from them in very small ways to huge ways. And I was, I really went into that. somewhat blindly because my first birth, I was very young as we already talked about.

And so the mistake I made is, I also believed that everything my doctor said was golden. And of course he wanted the best for me. And I only had like a six hour, of course, the younger you are, the usually the faster the birth because your body's just prime. Right. I had like a six hour. birth. I got to the hospital.

Kristin: Wow.

Trish: For our birth, that's including pushing.

Kristin: Yeah, that. Like,

Trish: it, it, and I left that birth, Kristen, feeling like something had happened to me. Not like, I just birthed. my child. Like I just went through my special experience and I now know as a labor and delivery nurse that my doctors probably never thought twice about it, never ever thought twice about it.

Kristin: Yeah, exactly.

The patient model doesn't work unless you prefer to let birth happen to you, but to be an informed decision maker in your birth. And that could be taking courses like your own hiring a doula and preparing so you understand the interventions, what your body's going through. You know, the evidence. about any of the choices that you may be potentially making with induction, for example.

Trish: And then you make them for yourself. Yes. Because that's how we feel. If you choose to be induced, now, if you tell me your bishop scores, like, two, I'm gonna, like, talk to you about my feelings about, like, I'm gonna be real with you. Right. But if you choose to induce, If I don't support you in that, and if I make you feel shame over that, I'm no better than they are.

Kristin: Absolutely.

And I want the best for them. So when I have someone in the room who's making me feel like I'm a bad guy, it's really difficult.

Kristin: Yes. And I'm all about collaborating and working within the system to affect change and not being combative or, Very rigid. If my clients change their mind, it's their birth, not mine.

Trish: with them. Can be very difficult. Yes,

Kristin: it's got to be.

Trish: Yeah. Yeah, it is.

And I tell my students all the time that they're really the only ones who can refuse things or accept things. And so me as a labor nurse, you as a doula, our hands are tied if mom's not willing to speak up.

Kristin: Absolutely. I don't speak up. speak on behalf of my clients. I can give them space to ask questions.

I try to empower the partner because sometimes in labor, we can't advocate for ourselves if we're in transition and out of body at times. Yeah.

And so I'd love to hear your side of this because as a labor nurse, I feel like the biggest manipulations that happen at times are by the doctors pitting the partner against her wishes in a very subtle way, like saying, you know, we don't want to end up with an emergency situation here where you and baby are in danger.

And you and I know, like, we're not in that situation. Like we're not, we're not basing. Yeah. We're not making choices on what if, because what if can be in any area, but I have. seeing a mom cave to something she really didn't want because now she's looking up at her partner who's looking down at her with deer in the headlights, like the doctor said the baby's going to die.

Trish: So how do you handle those pause? Like give us an example. Let's say doctor comes in, they sit down in their stool and they roll over and they say, you know, mama, you've been going at this for hours and we're just not seeing the change we'd like to see. So we think it's time we should talk about a cesarean.

Tell me, tell me how you handle navigating from let's make a decision right now to let's. Take time to think and talk.

And so giving them that space. And sometimes as a doula, I leave the room. Other times they're asking questions with the provider and or nurse in the room. And then we'll get into risks and benefits and alternatives. Do we have any other choices? Can we try a few different positions?

Trish: Do we have time? Do we have

Kristin: time?

What are all of the options and then they can discuss it as a couple and make a decision, but just giving that space.

Trish: Yeah, I think that's so wise, and I teach my students, I have like several mantras that I say. I always tell them nothing out of convenience or curiosity for anyone other than you guys.

And then the other one I say is, we can refuse whatever we want, but should we?

Kristin: Exactly.

They're flipping off your Pitocin and they're putting an oxygen mass and they're telling you we need to move you and reposition you like that's a different scenario.

Kristin: So different.

little group of women that have to face so much adversity, so many roadblocks, and so much nonsense when you and I both know that if they're a candidate, a vaginal birth is safe for them.

Kristin: Exactly. But, yes,

Trish: it's so frustrating. Oh, it's so frustrating. I could go on forever. But, One of the things that I have learned from so many of them is that their first c section, their primary c section, was presented to them in a way like it's a must, we have to do it, it's urgent, and then they're left to wait for hours before they actually do it.

Kristin: Was it really urgent?

Trish: Yeah, and they don't and they're not in there doing all the things to try to like flip them and do all the things to get like they're not still actively laboring them.

So the clock isn't as much of an issue as it was when I started out of you can only tell you a secret

And then the other nurse is like, Oh, she's still nine. Yep.

Kristin: Or we'll say like

Trish: eight and a half. Cause they want to see change too. So she's eight and a half. Oh, now she's a hundred percent. Oh, wait a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we've had our own version of labor down. We just didn't completely have a name for it, but yeah.

Kristin: Yeah. So I feel like the clock isn't as much of an issue and maybe it, you know, it was handled in a different way. Now you can formally say you're complete and you have time to labor down before putting them again. And, but there are more interventions than I've ever seen. Induction especially. Inductions are up, at least in the area that I serve.

Nobody was like. saying anything. Then they started to where they had to be 39 weeks because we were doing inductions at 38 weeks and babies were going to the NICU. Of course. And because you know, as well as I know, you can be off a few weeks on your dates. And so then they clamped down, they said they had to be 39 weeks to be induced.

And then Suddenly, everybody has a medical reason. Everyone has a big baby. Everyone's at risk for this or risk for that and we're like,

Kristin: yeah,

I, and I'm, I'm a homeschool mom. I'm a question asker. That's who I am, an educator. I would ask my patients, so tell me, like, even though it wasn't an admission question, I would say, so tell me why you're being induced today. Most of them had no idea, or they would tell me a reason their doctor told them, but the doctor charted elective.

And I was like, this is, this is not okay. And of course she's here now. And you know, you know, as well as I know when they come in for their inductions, like they have set their mind having baby. This is it. They don't want to go home. Right. You know, so it's like, it's not like I'm like, Oh, you were lied to, but I really realized how women just don't ask enough questions and they don't even know what to ask

Kristin: or when

Kristin: And that's where preparation comes in. If you educate and prepare, then you understand the questions to ask. Otherwise. Thank you guys. Birth could just happen to you and you don't get a repeat of this birth. And if you have a cesarean, it's going to affect all future births. So that's what I

Trish: tell them to my other mantra that I say all the time and I say it.

They're probably sick of me saying it, but I say it all the time. If you don't know your options, you don't have it. And it's so true because what has happened over the course of my career is that the women who don't know the options or maybe. sort of know them, like an overview. They've taken a hospital class, which is catered towards hospital policies.

Kristin: Much different than out of hospital. Much

Kristin: Exactly. Yeah. My personal choices have nothing to do with supporting my client.

Trish: Yeah. But that's a hard place. Like, and I get that question a ton about baby medications. I'm

Kristin: sure you do.

Trish: Because they're not educated, which is why we give them the New Bern Academy if they join my classes. Because, I just sent out an email right now because my classes are open for special enrollment, and I was talking about like, I was telling them about the time that I made my Thanksgiving dinner, but I forgot to make the pies.

I forgot to do any of the desserts. I saw your email, it was

Kristin: great.

Trish: Yeah, and I'm like, Okay, you prepare for all of that, all the birth, which only is a couple days,

Kristin: right?

So I I really that's why we give them our postpartum our birth coach and our newborn Academy class because you have to be prepared for that as well.

Kristin: Yes. Agreed.

Trish: I, and I love that. So you wrote a book, which is one of my goals. One of these days when I slow down, one of these days I will. So tell, tell us about your book.

Kristin: So my book supported your guide to birth and baby that I coauthored. Love it. Here,

Trish: move it over to the middle a little so we can see it.

Kristin: Okay. Thank you.

Trish: There you go. All right.

Kristin: We won a book award recently through book fest in the parenting category. And so I love it. Way to go. But the, as a doula and childbirth educator, my clients were always asking for resources and books.

all parents. And so regardless, again, of how they choose to feed, birth, or parent.

Trish: What about vaccinations? Do you go on both sides of that? Because that's one thing we avoid talking about on Labor Nurse Mama, but we support That people who do, people who don't.

Kristin: Yes. So we do cover newborn procedures and a bit of that.

We have, a, the VBAC Academy creators, she contributed to the VBAC section of the book, and I have a yoga instructor and body balancer who contributed to the fitness. And then a pediatrician covered a lot of the choices in a balanced way with evidence in the book.

Trish: I love that. Well, next time you write a book and you need a labor nurse, you now know one.

Yes,

Kristin: I will definitely circle back. A crunchy

Kristin: Thanks Trish. So my business Gold Coast Doulas is located in West Michigan.

We do have some virtual services like sleep consulting, where we can work with families across the country. And that's GoldCoastDoulas. com. We are on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, like all of the socials as at Gold Coast Doulas. And then my book supported your guide to birth and baby is available on Amazon.

All of the online retailers select bookstores.

Trish: What about Audible? Yes.

Kristin: We recorded an audio version ourselves in a studio in Grand Rapids and so we are on Audible and iTunes and then have a Kindle version, ebook format as well as paperback and hardcover.

Kristin: Same. Yes. Yeah.

Trish: It just feels different. I don't know. It feels different. Well, thank you so much for coming today. I so appreciate it. And I love chatting with you and getting to know you. And I know we had a little foo paw, you guys. I was sick. My son was sick and we missed our original date, but everything happens for a reason.

So I'm glad you were here today. Bye.

Kristin: It does. Thanks for having me, Trish. And I hope to connect with you again soon.

Trish: Of course.

And if you add on your labor bat signal, you've got a doula and myself for 12 weeks via a private one on one chat with you. Now, if you want to listen to to a really great episode about finding a postpartum doula after birth. Listen to episode 72. And as always, girl, write a review already and hit subscribe and I'll see you again next Friday.

Bye for now.