Cranial Facial Therapy for Infants and for Breastfeeding Success

[00:00:00] Trish Ware, RN: My name is Trish Ware and I am obsessed with all things pregnancy and birth, and helping you to navigate both the practical and the magical seasons of this journey called motherhood. I'm an all day coffee sip and mama of seven, and labor and delivery nurse who took her expertise in the labor room and turned it.

[00:00:25] Trish Ware, RN: Online, one-stop Shop for mamas looking for powerful education and support. I've had the amazing privilege of delivering mini babies in my 15 plus year career as a labor and delivery nurse, and as a mama of seven. I'm here to help you take the guesswork out of childbirth so you can make the choices that are right for you and your baby and write the birth story of your dreams.

[00:00:53] Trish Ware, RN: So hit subscribe and let's replace your anxiety and fear with complete [00:01:00] confidence. Quick note, this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace your medical advice. Check out our full disclaimer at the bottom of the show notes.

[00:01:16] Trish Ware, RN: Good morning everyone. I am so excited about today's podcast episode. I have got charity with me and I'm gonna let her introduce herself to you, but I saw her on Instagram and was so fascinated by the work that she's doing. So welcome charity, and I would love for you to just tell everyone a little bit about who you are and what you.

[00:01:40] Charity Spears: Hi. Thank you so much, first of all, just for having me. I'm so excited to be here, but I'm Charity. I have two little ones and a wonderful husband, but I have a three-year-old and a 17 month old, so that right there should tell you a lot about where I am and, but I've been doing massage therapy for the past 12 years, and then [00:02:00] when I had my first, who's now three.

[00:02:02] Charity Spears: She was the typical colicky baby, and I just knew that she needed body work and I knew some massage that I had taken for specifically infant massage, but it wasn't like the answer and I just knew that there was something else, and so she was like my driving force to. Find out what was going on with her system and how could I help her?

[00:02:26] Charity Spears: And then it's blossomed into, okay, now I wanna help every baby. And it's been really fascinating to see how her life started out and she didn't have C F T off from the back. And then how my son, who's 17 months, how his life has started out. And he did. Pretty much off the bat. So it's just been a really incredible journey to see with both my kids in front of me and then to be able to help other moms, which helps with world tension, gut issues, gassiness, sleep, all the things that are wrapped into like [00:03:00] colicky babies and why they cry.

[00:03:02] Trish Ware, RN: So I wanna back up a little bit. Tell my listeners, they're probably like, what is cft? Tell them what CFT is.

[00:03:10] Charity Spears: That's totally fair. I always forget that because it just becomes so natural to me. But it is cranial sacral fascial therapy. So a lot of people have heard of C S T, which is cranial sacral therapy, but this actually touches on the fascia.

[00:03:27] Charity Spears: So I think of fascia as like Saran wrap over our entire body. So if we have this one piece of sarn wrap over our entire body, when there is tension in a certain area, it's gonna pull across the entire body. So I've done body work on babies that have had oral tension, but even just starting and working on their hips, have helped open up their latch and opened up tension through the.

[00:03:55] Charity Spears: the mouth is sucking oral tension. So it's been really incredible to see that. But that [00:04:00] kind of gives you a little bit of an idea for those who don't know what fascia is, what I'm specifically working on, and how it impacts the entire body.

[00:04:09] Trish Ware, RN: Yeah, the, what you're saying is for these newborns and these babies that strain in the fascia or the.

[00:04:18] Trish Ware, RN: I guess it would be, what would you call it? That's, it causes a lot of different issues that you would never think is related to that strain, so that's so fascinating. And one of the topics that we have been really focused on lately inside of my pregnancy and postpartum membership is, Tongue tie and lip tie.

[00:04:39] Trish Ware, RN: And it's really crazy because I feel like there's been so many mamas lately in my community that's dealing with this in some form of fashion, and they're running into a lot of roadblocks when it comes to resolving it. And so I'm really excited to delve into that as well. So do you think that only babies who have some [00:05:00] sort of issue need to have this done, or do you think all babies.

[00:05:04] Charity Spears: I'm, I think all babies need it, honestly. Of course, I end up seeing most babies who do have things going on. That's when moms really come to me. But it is starting to happen where people are pre-booking Me too, because they're like, they're seeing what I do when all of the things that can be stressed.

[00:05:22] Charity Spears: Even like a birth story and how that can impact a baby right from the start. If you think about how we might push for a really long time, or even a short period, how that might affect their fascia, their muscles, their body, and how unwinding that per se can help them. So I have moms now that have seen my Instagram and are pre-booking me before their babies are even here.

[00:05:47] Charity Spears: And then once it gets closer, Then I'm able to jump in work on them. So now I'm getting to work on them a few days old, which is amazing. They just unwind so beautifully in even that first session [00:06:00] when they're so fresh. It's amazing.

[00:06:02] Trish Ware, RN: Yeah. My husband and I were having this conversation actually a couple nights ago because we were talking about the difference.

[00:06:09] Trish Ware, RN: I'm older, obviously, and I have older children. I did have one late in life, so he's younger, but there's a huge difference in this initiative that women are taking. To for different types of care during pregnancy, postpartum, and for their newborns. Because when I was pregnant and I had babies, it was just like, this is how it is.

[00:06:30] Trish Ware, RN: You're gonna be uncomfortable. Baby's gonna cry. These are the things, and I love that a lot of my students, and we provide expert workshops in our community for our pregnancy and postpartum mamas. We have chiropractors, we have therapists, we have massage therapists and public floor therapists and all these things.

[00:06:50] Trish Ware, RN: And I'm like, you guys are amazing. Because they're taking initiative and they're not just saying, oh, this is just how it is. So we were talking [00:07:00] about chiropractic care for a baby, and I love how this plays in to these babies are like scrunched in a weird little position for 40 weeks, hopefully. It makes sense that they need to be, like you said, a little unwinding done because I know if I sleep in one position for 45 minutes during the night, like my shoulder might hurt or my back, or what have you.

[00:07:24] Trish Ware, RN: So I love that. Would you say that you would recommend also combining that with chiropractic care as

[00:07:30] Charity Spears: well? Absolutely. Yeah. I think they go hand in hand, especially if you're already doing chiropractic care to be able to work on the fascia and the muscles so that a, an adjustment actually. sticks and holds better because the muscles and the fascia will continue to pull it out of place if it's not unwound.

[00:07:50] Charity Spears: So I definitely think they go hand in hand. I actually, my office is inside a chiropractor's office, so Okay. I absolutely love that, that she's right there. So

[00:07:59] Trish Ware, RN: I [00:08:00] tell myself. So do they combine that first appointment? Is it sometimes you, the both of you? Or is it.

[00:08:06] Charity Spears: In a perfect world, I would love that. But we are both so busy and I mean, I have all of January booked already , which is wild to me that my business has grown so much in the last year to be able to say that.

[00:08:21] Charity Spears: But in a perfect world, I would love that. It's just about scheduling and. making that happen.

[00:08:28] Trish Ware, RN: Okay. Okay. So I know that when I was doing some research about having you on here today that you said definitely everyone should do it, like all babies should have this. But are there specific situations or birth situations or pregnancy situations that you're like, this is a must that you should do this.

[00:08:49] Trish Ware, RN: So can you

[00:08:49] Charity Spears: expand on. . I think tough birth stories is a good start. Even if it is a C-section that is planned, the baby doesn't [00:09:00] go through this natural unwinding in the canal. So to be able to work on a baby that has had a C-section birth, you get to see them naturally go through these motions and you would be able to say, oh, I know exactly what she was talking about For our listeners, it.

[00:09:18] Charity Spears: What's the wording that I'm looking for? I, my mind is going blank, but it is the natural unwinding that happens right in the birth canal.

[00:09:27] Trish Ware, RN: I think that explains it because there is, okay, I, what's so amazing, and for those of you guys listening, I am a Christian, I am a believer, and for. Every single birth.

[00:09:39] Trish Ware, RN: When you're talking about this natural unwinding, there are motions and movements that each newborn goes through at that end, where if you are standing on the side that I'm on where I'm seeing it, you can see these movements of the head and as they adjust to the birth canal and they move through the birth canal, and that's what you're talking about.

[00:09:59] Trish Ware, RN: But [00:10:00] to me, yes, because it happens routinely. I don't know what you wanna call it. It is so beautiful. I can't tell you how many births I've teared up, but that was just a side note. So

[00:10:11] Charity Spears: anyhow, yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. So I think that is a great start to who might need it, but then you also go into, yeah, birth trauma.

[00:10:23] Charity Spears: If a mom has a really hard story, that baby probably needs some work because. If we're having a hard time with it, chance is up there. It's their story too, and I think it's really important that we. Don't need to share a story with everyone. I totally understand that, but to recognize, because sometimes I feel like we block it out, which I understand I've totally been there, that we block it out, but it's also their story.

[00:10:50] Charity Spears: So to recognize that it was a hard birth because I feel like society just says, as long as your baby is here and they're healthy, then it doesn't, it's. [00:11:00] and that's great, but that doesn't validate us and it doesn't validate their story. So to find a safe space and providers that can help us through that journey and through that process, not just for ourselves but also for our babies, I think is really in.

[00:11:16] Charity Spears: Important to think about, and then you go into oral tension right off the bat. Some of these babies do have tongue ties and breastfeeding issues right off the bat, and they're getting released. There are some that I have seen getting released within 24 hours, which I've personally do not love. There are situations where I think that tongue may be completely tied to the floor, but most of the time, I don't feel like it's a case where they need to be within 24 hours.

[00:11:48] Charity Spears: I would love to see them do body work before and after a release first, because if we can unwind the fascia, then we can actually see what is tense under there, what [00:12:00] is holding the tongue down. But we have to get past the fascial tension first and helping the body unwind. So when you do get that release, it actually holds better too because you got underneath all of.

[00:12:12] Charity Spears: Tension, if that makes sense.

[00:12:14] Trish Ware, RN: Um, yeah, but let's, let's just be real. You and I both know that the people who are doing the release, the experts who do that, are not on board with that.

[00:12:25] Charity Spears: I would say I think that's changing, at least in our city. I have a lot of them now referring to me. The problem is I don't think a lot of of them are referring to me before.

[00:12:37] Charity Spears: It's more after. Which

[00:12:38] Trish Ware, RN: is great that that's what I meant. That's what I

[00:12:40] Charity Spears: meant. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think part of it is some of them, they go in for a consultation and they're gonna do it that same day and they don't want moms to have to drive back out. They don't want 'em to have a baby back in. They know this baby means it and mom's exhausted.

[00:12:55] Charity Spears: So, and mom's exhausted. But moms are also being put in a situation [00:13:00] where some of them have no idea what they're up against. The stretches that they're gonna be doing are, is mom mentally ready for something like this? I think waiting if you can, doing body work and being able to wait a couple weeks can make a world of difference even on our own mental health.

[00:13:15] Charity Spears: And again, if this situation really depends on what that baby needs and how feeding is going. An oral assessment from an I B C L C, that's where I think. that matters so, so much.

[00:13:28] Trish Ware, RN: Yeah. I was just about to say, there's a couple things I wanna address that you said. Let me go back a little bit. You were saying that yeah, not all women want to talk about their birth trauma, but I'm going to jump in here just because I do have a really powerful pregnancy and postpartum membership where I've had the.

[00:13:49] Trish Ware, RN: Of spending. We have what we call a postpartum happy hour, which we need to rename it because it's like a postpartum emotional hour. , I'm gonna say. We meet via Zoom, and [00:14:00] I've had the honor and Taylor, my doula and the rest of my team where we spend an hour to two hours with these postpartum moms and as a labor and delivery nurse.

[00:14:09] Trish Ware, RN: It's been the first time that I've spent so much significant time with a mama through her postpartum journey, and so, I would say there is power in being able to share your birth trauma story. Without filtering it, without making it sound the way you think someone wants to hear or making it. Because a lot of us, when we have something go wrong in our birth, people will say things like, you are healthy and baby's healthy, and what more could you ask for?

[00:14:38] Trish Ware, RN: That's a bullshit thing to say because there's a lot more to ask for because your birth story changes you forever. It's with you forever, and so if you leave it feeling traumatized, I do think there's power in sharing it. It can't just be willy-nilly. It needs to be right in a safe environment with a safe, that's what I was gonna say.

[00:14:57] Trish Ware, RN: Yeah. Yeah. So I think there is power in that. So [00:15:00] for some of you guys who feel like, I don't wanna talk about it when talk about it, I'm gonna say to you, And that's one thing we have inside of our membership. We have a space where it's a trigger warning space where they can go in and literally write it out the way they feel it with all the emotions and without all the fluff or the.

[00:15:20] Trish Ware, RN: I'm trying because we tend to, when we have a story, we tend to share it in a way where we don't hurt the other person or we're cautious for them. And we're like, no, throw that to the win. Share it the way you want to, and then the people in the community can come and read it if they want to. And I think there's power in that.

[00:15:36] Trish Ware, RN: The other thing, Is that what I'm thinking when you're talking about these babies and moms who experience birth trauma? Like obviously I'm thinking about maybe a baby who's in a wonky position in the birth canal for a long time, or a forceps delivery or an A episiotomy delivery, something where the natural process, the natural flow of delivery [00:16:00] is interrupted in some way.

[00:16:01] Trish Ware, RN: Am I on the right track when with that?

[00:16:04] Charity Spears: Yeah, absolutely. It's just tough because I think you could have the, also the quote unquote perfect birth, let's say. I have yet to know one that a mom is like absolutely. Everything went exactly how I wanted. I've heard a lot of people say, my birth was amazing, but then you start asking questions and then they start releasing things, which is so great for them and their baby to be able to.

[00:16:32] Charity Spears: That it is a safe space and to be able to talk about it. And I'm so glad that you said that because there are friends and I had people reaching out from high school that I hadn't talked to in years that had asked about my first story, and I'm like, I don't really wanna share this with you. I'm not ready to share.

[00:16:46] Charity Spears: Yeah. That because I need to feel validated in the process that my body went through, that my baby's story, I wasn't sharing my kids' name on social media, but they were asking about , my birth story. [00:17:00] At day three. I didn't feel like that was a safe space, obviously. Exactly right. Yeah. So those are those situations and that could be some of your best friends that you just don't feel.

[00:17:09] Charity Spears: For whatever reason that you wanna share that, but to be able to have a safe space with your providers, with postpartum groups and to share trigger warnings, I think is also super important because I have been a part of postpartum groups running the postpartum group. Pregnant at the end of my journey and not wanting to hear birth stories, which was really tough cuz I'm running the groups, so of course I'm like, I feel like I have to, but it's just good to be able to put trigger warnings out there because maybe a mom is not in a mental space to handle that.

[00:17:45] Charity Spears: That day even, and then maybe the next day she is. Well,

[00:17:48] Trish Ware, RN: and the flip side is, there's two parts of that I've learned in this postpartum community is that you've got the moms who experienced birth trauma who don't wanna hear what they [00:18:00] consider as the perfect birth. And like you said, there isn't one. So then the mom who feels like, oh my gosh, her birth was so horrific.

[00:18:08] Trish Ware, RN: I don't wanna share mine because I don't wanna make her feel bad about my good birth. But in all reality, there's a space and an A. You know what I've loved to see is I've seen my moms who've had, when they share their birth, like we're all weeping because it really is. Justin, and I'm talking like beyond just being ignored or your provider, which does huge things, huge trauma, but I'm talking about some moms who, like their babies have long lasting results from their birth, whether it's lack of oxygen or what have you.

[00:18:36] Trish Ware, RN: All the way to these moms who go in and rip roar, have the baby in a hour and a half and it's. Seemingly perfect to this mom, but to this mom, she's super traumatized because it was like mind blowing what happened to her and she had no control over it. So there is a wide range and being able to have that safe place and for these moms to come together and realize like we're all affected in different ways and like growing [00:19:00] together.

[00:19:00] Trish Ware, RN: This is just a whole side note, but anyway. One thing that I wanted to ask you about is what do we do on the front side? Like I, obviously, I think we've invited you to come in and do like a workshop inside of our community. I would love for you to do that because I think letting the moms know, empowering them with the information.

[00:19:23] Trish Ware, RN: Like here, if you find yourself, let's say with a tongue tie or a lip tie, don't go straight to the repair. Come to. So we need, that's where I think the power will be because we all know, let's just be real. Your, your obstetrician, your midwife most of the time is not gonna say, oh, you're having pelvic pain.

[00:19:45] Trish Ware, RN: Go see a physical therapist. They're gonna say, oh, it's just a normal part of pregnancy. Or in, in your case, like, they're not gonna say, Hey, let's be preemptive and have this scheduled. And so I think that's where the power will be, is educating [00:20:00] moms prenatally while they're. So that if these situations arise, they already know what to

[00:20:07] Charity Spears: do.

[00:20:08] Charity Spears: Absolutely. And I honestly, I'm glad you brought up even midwives who I absolutely love. It's baffling to me that some of the, the ones in our local community are having moms go do prenatal visits at the tongue. Physician's office because maybe they already had a baby that had one. So they're already just sending 'em straight to that without body work, without chiropractic care, a, any, anything.

[00:20:43] Charity Spears: And it just, I'm like, how? How is this, we're supposed to be non intervening per se. Yeah. Until. that point is necessary and I totally believe that it is necessary for some babies. [00:21:00] But to just jump to that, I don't think, obviously cuz of what, I don't think that's the answer. And to have, I don't know, midwives and some even like Id CLCs.

[00:21:14] Charity Spears: Just sending 'em straight to get released without anything in between. It's just mind blowing to me.

[00:21:21] Trish Ware, RN: I think that's an important thing to note is that interventions are necessary when they're needed, but let's figure out the natural process, the natural flow of. Pregnancy and birth, and what I really love is this movement towards chiropractic care and prenatal massage and postnatal massage and infant massage.

[00:21:47] Trish Ware, RN: We actually, we have a team doula. She's our community manager, and as a team we decided to get her trained in infant massage. And so that's something we offer once. She's instructing the [00:22:00] parents, she's not doing it. But we felt like that was really important. And I'll tell you, looking back, I have two children that have.

[00:22:10] Trish Ware, RN: Two, two and a quarter because one did, but they had major GI issues and I really wish that I had known about chiropractic care and prenatal massage and all these things that I could have done to help them, rather than going straight to medication and straight to the extreme. Maybe that would've set them up.

[00:22:32] Trish Ware, RN: Two of them still have digestive issues now. One is an adult and one is a teenager. And I just wonder like what that would've done for them if I had taken them to a chiropractor, if I had explored that side of the natural process and working with our bodies to figure out how do we handle this instead of going to medications and procedures and all of these like invasive things.

[00:22:57] Trish Ware, RN: And I love that you're saying like, okay. [00:23:00] Let's lay this foundation of knowledge so that these moms know, all right, if you hear or you think that the baby has a lip or tongue tie or digestive issues. So we've talked a lot about lip and tongue tie. So tell me about digestive issues. How does that help with that?

[00:23:20] Charity Spears: I wanted to add one thing on the back end. First, I remembered what I was gonna say was we need to be able to see in those first couple days too, the function of the milk coming in. We haven't even seen that. So to be sending babies before we even get to see what that looks like is wild to me. And again, there's very rare cases, but they're rare and we're sending 'em more often than rare.

[00:23:46] Charity Spears: So I did wanna add that in.

[00:23:48] Trish Ware, RN: I just wanna ask you a question. So from my experience and with my students and my members and my membership, I feel like they're more often than not getting treated [00:24:00] later than initially. Is it more common for them to wait to treat it, or is it more common to treat it in the first couple days?

[00:24:07] Trish Ware, RN: Because I feel like I've seen the opposite, that they usually wait,

[00:24:12] Charity Spears: I guess it's like 50 50, but I. It's just happening too much. Okay. I think on the front end as well. Within days. Yeah. Well it just, it's happening enough to talk about, at least here, but it, there is a lot of weight also. Okay. So both.

[00:24:30] Trish Ware, RN: Okay.

[00:24:31] Trish Ware, RN: And do you feel like in those cases, this is when the staff or the pediatrician in the hospital is catching it? Cuz I feel like it gets missed a lot.

[00:24:42] Charity Spears: I think some people don't think it's real, and I think that's a big problem that we have. It's either not real and it's a fad, and your pediatrician says, no, that's not there.

[00:24:53] Charity Spears: Even though your I B C L C may have said, Hey, let's get this evaluated, or here's some things we can do. [00:25:00] Here's some body work. This is a great chiropractor, and then your pediatrician says, no, those aren't real. That. That stinks for that mom, cuz now she is an now one. And then the other end of that is, Okay, these are definitely real, but I'm gonna adjust, do body work, and maybe body work only takes you so far because a release does need to happen.

[00:25:22] Charity Spears: And so it's just really one or the other. Instead of coming together and having conversations like this and saying every single baby is different. They're not gonna be all cookie cutter in their plan. Even when it comes to oral tension, oral function, oral ties. Because the other thing too is if you think of breastfeeding issues as an ocean and a fish, we'll say we're picking out one fish and that is tongue tie.

[00:25:49] Charity Spears: To say, oh, this problem. But there's other things that go into play too. Like mom may need a lactation massage because maybe she's super engorged, so maybe [00:26:00] that would help her breasts and would also help baby. Maybe they both need chiropractic care, cranial sacral, fascial therapy, all of these things, and helping the gut, the hips not.

[00:26:12] Charity Spears: Oral tension and oral ties, we're only looking at one part. So that's another issue that we have is there's not a ton of providers. I feel like I found a really good circle in really good community that are looking at the entire body. But as a whole, I don't feel like there's a ton of providers that look at everything.

[00:26:31] Charity Spears: I, for instance, switching over to a. Per se, I have a lot of people that come to me and their babies have had torticollis and they've already worked with a pt, and the PT has not touched the lower body whatsoever.

[00:26:47] Trish Ware, RN: So explain what that is for those of people listening.

[00:26:50] Charity Spears: Okay, so torticollis. There are different variations of this.

[00:26:55] Charity Spears: Maybe it might be a slight or more, I don't wanna say [00:27:00] dramatic, but enough, yeah, pronounced. where the baby's head will only turn in one direction and you'll see like this curve, I don't know if anybody is watching, but for the listeners, it's more of a curve in a tilt. And then a lot of times they'll only look in one direction and they really don't want to turn the other way, whether it's in tummy time or even when you're just like holding them.

[00:27:23] Charity Spears: They really only wanna face one way and you can really tell that it's tension. So that would be. Part of torticollis. And a lot of people do see PT for that. But again, they're not even assessing lower body and hips. Some are, but not all

[00:27:41] Trish Ware, RN: of them. Yeah, because it makes sense if they have all that tension that the 10, they're going to hyper use other areas or movement, which will create tension in other areas.

[00:27:51] Trish Ware, RN: So that makes a lot of sense cuz I think we all do that. Favor something.

[00:27:55] Charity Spears: Absolutely. It's honestly one of the reasons why I stepped out of the [00:28:00] massage as a whole because I felt like people were coming to me and maybe they had a shoulder injury or the neck injury, some, something like that. And then I would find that their tension, their fascia was actually wound up in their hips, but they want me to just work on the shoulder and so I really.

[00:28:23] Charity Spears: One of the reasons why I felt like I stepped out of it is because I wanted people to come to me and see me more as the provider that I wanna talk this through. I wanna be a part of the plan, just like I want you to be a part of the plan because it's your body. And I totally respect that. And it's not that I'm saying I wouldn't work on the shoulder if that's what's hurting, but we need to assess the entire body rather than one part and coming in and.

[00:28:48] Charity Spears: My shoulder hurts. We need to work on that. I want you to use this amount of pressure. I want you to dig deep instead of saying, what does your body need? And starting there, and it's the same [00:29:00] for our babies. Instead of just saying, obviously I can see that my baby only wants to turn one way, I'm going to assess the entire body because I wanna see what are your hips doing.

[00:29:10] Charity Spears: I've had babies that have, again, started to open up through their neck and through. Latching what we call the gape latching, just from working on the hips and then working my way up, so it's all connected.

[00:29:25] Trish Ware, RN: I love that. I love that so much. So we've talked a lot about some reasons why people might wanna come see you and why they should, but what can they expect afterwards, after having the It's cft correct.

[00:29:38] Trish Ware, RN: After they've had, yes. The CFT therapy. What can these mamas expect with their babies?

[00:29:45] Charity Spears: That's such a hard one because it depends on that birth story, right? Depends. I have people ask all the time, well, how many times? Times do I come see you? It's tough to say. The younger they are, I don't necessarily feel like I'll need as many sessions.

[00:29:59] Charity Spears: [00:30:00] So much changes, and in that first few days as they get older, if a baby. Waited to see me, we have now added things on. We've added on more attention and more stress, and I don't say that as a bad thing or a place of guilt at all for not seeing me sooner, but it's just the reality of we probably are gonna have to do a little bit more work.

[00:30:25] Charity Spears: What I'm finding is most babies under. That first year mean five to eight sessions, and that is also talking to Dr. Barry. I had the pleasure of speaking with in November. He is the one that came up with cranial sacral fascial therapy, and it was just an incredible conversation because he doesn't even teach anymore.

[00:30:49] Charity Spears: When I got certified, he wasn't a teacher. Does his own thing now, and he supervises all of that, but he doesn't travel around. He's much older [00:31:00] now, and so he's not accessible to just get on the phone with, but he called me because he is, I've seen you all over Instagram. It's so cool to see someone young doing this.

[00:31:11] Charity Spears: So early on, and I'm one of three people in the state that do this, and as of right now, I'm the only one taking individual sessions for infants specifically. So he just called to thank me, but I got to ask questions with him too. And that was one of them, how many sessions are you seeing with these babies?

[00:31:28] Charity Spears: And he said about five to eight. And that's what I'm seeing too. So it was just cool to see what he. and then afterwards so much can change. In one session, you can really start to see them regulate babies that are typical colic that are screaming all the time are now being able to sleep and be much more.

[00:31:48] Charity Spears: Oh yeah,

[00:31:49] Trish Ware, RN: that's a reason. This is a reason to come see you right there. Because yeah, we talk about that a lot in our community. A screaming baby can drive you. Especially when [00:32:00] you're sleep deprived, your boobs hurt. Your booty hurts, everything's sore, and then your baby is screaming. So that's huge. But I wanna touch on something.

[00:32:10] Trish Ware, RN: So you just said you're one of three in your state, so how do these moms find someone if it's so rare?

[00:32:17] Charity Spears: We're hoping that more people get

[00:32:18] Trish Ware, RN: certified. So let me ask you one more question because you mentioned toddlers. Like in what cases would someone who, obviously their baby is now older, they've missed this, but they're like, oh my gosh, this could really bene, I think this could benefit.

[00:32:33] Trish Ware, RN: My baby. Is there an age limit or is this something adults could do?

[00:32:38] Charity Spears: Absolutely, and I think I was gonna touch on that. Earlier and totally forgot, but absolutely. It's never too late to do this type of work. If you haven't had it, it's probably a great thing to look into. Especially as adults, we have so much emotional trauma.

[00:32:54] Charity Spears: I don't know anyone that does not. And if you are someone that. If you don't feel like you do, that's [00:33:00] awesome, , but, and that means you probably had some, you're probably on denials, your body word for that, right? Yeah, I'll let you say that. But I honestly think that everybody needs it. Toddlers, A lot of toddlers come to see me because of the same sort of.

[00:33:15] Charity Spears: Regulations throughout their system. Cuz you gotta, you gotta think it, I impacts your entire essential nervous system, but it also impacts your parasympathetic and that for those that don't know, that's your fight or flight. So anxiety, anxiousness, and so a lot of toddlers, we get into vagus nerve work and I do it on the babies too, but for toddlers it's awesome to see them just melt.

[00:33:41] Charity Spears: I've. Kids come in, they're super hyper, and I start working on their vagus nerve and they really start like just relaxing. And I, I'm, oh my goodness, my kid is never this calm, can you come live with me? It's just really cool to see what toddlers, what it can do to their nervous system and in regards to really helping them [00:34:00] regulate that.

[00:34:00] Charity Spears: And I, it goes over bedwetting GI issues develop. It. There's so much. It sounds endless because it really is, it affects our entire body the way that the fas. Gets wound up. So part of that too, and this is a little nerdy, so this might skip over some of your guys' heads, and that's totally okay. I told my mom this too when I explained this, but the cerebral spinal fluid, which is a large part of your essential nervous system, right?

[00:34:29] Charity Spears: It flows through fascia. So if your fascia tight and wound up, it's not gonna be able to flow through your body the way that we want it to and the way that we wanna see your body operate. Right? So, yeah, that's huge. And it's not gonna just impact toddlers or babies, but adults too. And our fascia holds memory.

[00:34:52] Charity Spears: So there's also that. So going back to birth story, birth trauma, all the way through our entire lives. If we've never [00:35:00] had that worked out, you probably need that. I've had a mom on my table before, she was seven years post part. I started working on her, started working on her like pelvis, and asking her about her birth story.

[00:35:15] Charity Spears: She knows I work on a ton of babies, and at the time I was doing a ton of moms as well. Okay,

[00:35:23] Trish Ware, RN: so we've covered so much in some of this. I know you and I have gotten off on some tangents because it's really fascinating for me as a educator, online educator, as a nurse and as a mom, because I'm thinking, man, do I need to take Grayson and do this?

[00:35:38] Trish Ware, RN: Because he definitely has some sleep issues with snoring and a little bit of anxiety and, and mouth breathing and all the things. So to wrap up this, what are a couple things that you think moms need to think of while they're pregnant and that immediate postpartum with their newborns? What would you tell them?

[00:35:59] Charity Spears: [00:36:00] I would tell them to do this work as soon as they can with their newborns. I think all of our birth stories are so powerful and amazing, but they all have trauma to them and they're all our story, but they're their story too. So the sooner that you can do this, Do it. If you feel like, oh man, I already waited.

[00:36:23] Charity Spears: My kid is now a toddler, or maybe even a teenager. It's not too late to still go back and do some of this work. You'll still see changes. I work up to 13 years old and, and that's just because if I don't put an age gap or if I don't put an age on. I would never be able to work on all the babies because I would be busy for the entire year.

[00:36:48] Charity Spears: So that's the only reason that I have an age on it. But there's, yeah, you

[00:36:53] Trish Ware, RN: can do this throughout. So one last thing, sorry to interrupt you. How do No, you're fine. How do, how does, what is that noise? [00:37:00] Bangy?

[00:37:01] Charity Spears: It's the adjustment table. Okay. I knew this was possible, but she only uses it like maybe once a day, so I was like, it should be, Of course.

[00:37:11] Trish Ware, RN: All right, so let Liz get rid of that. Okay, so let me ask you, how does a mom find someone who does this? Is there a website? Is there a way to find someone?

[00:37:21] Charity Spears: Yes, they can go on the Gillespie Facebook group and you can just search at the top, your state, your city, and it should pop up. Previous conversations that have there is already tagged.

[00:37:36] Charity Spears: The other thing that you can do if you don't see that. Ask, is there anyone in Phoenix, Arizona? And then you'll see my name pop up, or you'll see Amy Fields's name pop up. But that's the easiest way is to go on Facebook.

[00:37:50] Trish Ware, RN: Okay. So I will link to that. If you'll send me that link, I'll put it in the show notes so you guys can find it and other information to be able to find charity.

[00:37:58] Trish Ware, RN: Her business name is [00:38:00] Cocoon to Bloom, and if you're not following our Instagram, I totally recommend that you do because it's very interesting. I, your reels kept popping up for me and I was. What is this magic ? What is this? I love watching 'em. It's very fascinating to watch it. So thank you so much for coming today.

[00:38:17] Trish Ware, RN: I am so glad to have you. And for those of you guys who are wondering what is the ruckus in the background, charity is at work and another therapist is busy doing therapy, so we've got to hear that. So thank you so much for coming today.

[00:38:32] Charity Spears: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I definitely had fun on here, so thank you.

[00:38:37] Trish Ware, RN: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Birth Experience with Labor Nurse Mama, where we talked about cranial facial therapy. That's a mouthful. I really love how many of you take initiative on not just settling for this is just how it is and taking that power and going and exploring different options.

[00:38:59] Trish Ware, RN: [00:39:00] So go. As always, I'll see you guys next week. Have a great week. Bye for now.